my initial thoughts on the game/early review

X3N0-Life-Form wrote: That being said, one also has to keep several things in mind when criticizing Wing Commander Saga. One of them is the campaign's size; 50 missions is a lot, I'm not 100% sure how active FREDers (missions designers) they've had working on them, especially in the later years, but I'm betting it was a rather small number.

We had exactly one in the end... me. And we had about 3 beta testers doing fulltime work at any given time. As for the Sabre mission of doom... I changed the difficulty of that about a dozen times, in the end made it harder because the beta testers insisted it was way too easy.

The bomber AI just isn't very good in this game and rewriting the Ai just wasn't in the cards. We just didn't have the time or resources for that at any point.

As for the writing and general tight mission design... remember that the storyline was originally fan fiction without any kind of intactive element planned. We were very limited in what we could do here.

As for the "turd".. especially our composer wanted to get rid of that... the fact was however.. the lines of that pilot were recorded years before release and we liked his voice so much that we just didn't want to recast him... so we had to live with the 'turd'.

As for the not so good voice acting... it just isn't easy to find good actors for your main roles. being so blessed without a budget was just incredible. it was just impossible to get that kind of level even for the supporting roles. Some is crap yes, but I feel the majority was of very good quality.

Regarding the Excalibur AI... you're very very wrong. The AI was so incredibly effective at flying the excalibur we had to intentionally dumb it down because during testing the player never gut ANY kill. the wingmen just blasted everything before you even got your first shot off. Remember that effective wingmen are one thing, having the player become useless is another.

thanks for the reply let me ask you this though, im on the stalker ace mission and one strategy somebody told me is to stay close to your wingman avatarr and let him take some hits and do some damage but I noticed after he charges into battle I never saw him fire his laser guns could this be a bug.

i doubt it. Avatarr never gets his guns locked agaist firing so I see no reason for him to not be able to shoot. Nobody ever reported anything like that. Probably a coincidence. As for stalker.. the best tip I can give you is not to rely on avatarr but to keep turning and maneuvering when stalker is cloaked. The problem arises from stalking getting behind you and launching IFFs at close range. if he cannot easily get behind you, you have better chances to evade the missiles and get him into your sights before he recloakes. So keep flying in circles when he's cloaked. He also doesn't have unlimited missiles, so once we used all of these, he's easy pray. Easier said than done I know, but he's doable once you get the tactics down. Your first priority needs to be evading his missiles. Only after you have done that worry about killing him. Rather let him recloak than not shake a missile. Those things will seriously mess you up if they hit.

problem is I save all my missiles except for the torpedo for him and his friends but I cant even get a loc kon his friends most of the time

KeldorKatarn wrote: Regarding the Excalibur AI... you're very very wrong. The AI was so incredibly effective at flying the excalibur we had to intentionally dumb it down because during testing the player never gut ANY kill. the wingmen just blasted everything before you even got your first shot off. Remember that effective wingmen are one thing, having the player become useless is another.

Actually, that's sorta what I meant - table-side nerfing. I guess it's just jarring to me since I know full well what the AI is capable of in terms of dogfighting ability (especially glide-strafing), and that I know what kind of a murder-machine the excalibur is.

X3N0-Life-Form wrote:

KeldorKatarn wrote: Regarding the Excalibur AI... you're very very wrong. The AI was so incredibly effective at flying the excalibur we had to intentionally dumb it down because during testing the player never gut ANY kill. the wingmen just blasted everything before you even got your first shot off. Remember that effective wingmen are one thing, having the player become useless is another.

Actually, that's sorta what I meant - table-side nerfing. I guess it's just jarring to me since I know full well what the AI is capable of in terms of dogfighting ability (especially glide-strafing), and that I know what kind of a murder-machine the excalibur is.

The AI has to be good, but it can't be that good that it makes the player look stupid. We're already throwing hordes of enemies at the player to make it remotely challenging in the excalibur. Even better friendly AI would have unbalanced the game. It didn't need to be better. Ask our testers, the first versions of the excalibur missions with normal AI flying were completely broken. The player didn't even get a shot in.

I did it I did it I did it I semi killed stalker. wow that was one of the toughest fights I ever had in gaming. I just wish I could have literally killed him (yes I know he dies in WC3 but damn im sweating.) The mission to me is the hardest mission in the game besides mission 5. What I did was save 4 missiles for the final encounter and waited and dodged until I got him where I wanted him than bam. I missile spammed him like he did me. I really like this mission even though I died a lot. the only cheating aspect of it to me is the fact that stalker gets his weapons and missiles back and the fact he rams you constantly. im done for today lol. I need a strong drink lol.

wow just wow im on the Excalibur missions and could they be any longer seriously. even the game started making fun of itself. at a certain pt its just too much.

well im on mission 46 and it has become a grind I understand the Excalibur is the best ship and so they have to throw more at you, but the missions have become a grind and have lost some of the fun. last mission i died bc I finally just ran out of fuel and yes I know about glide its just you cant always use that when you are being missile spammed. I understand the designers wanted the final missions to be challenging I just feel they are going about it the wrong way.

just beat the game whoa what a ride I would like to thank my wife for understanding the need to beat this. here is just some initial thoughts a full review is upcoming soon.

1. great ending and loved the fact that it gave a glimpse into the life of the pilots after the war. although I find it hard to believe that sandman never got promoted again after captain. I mean at the end of the game I had 9 ribbons, 2 bronze stars and two silver stars and right at a 1000 kills lol.

2. deathfangs death was so anti climatic it hurt, I mean we face him 3 times and I dont even get to kill him, what more is I love that mission as a whole especially the part where your attacked from above and below.

3. final mission was very long but surprisingly very easy. then again I found both end missions in wc3 and wc4 to be easy too especially wc4.

4. my fav characters in the game in no order are.... Comm officer Sweeny, assassin, ninja, greywolf, and maniac jr oops I mean avataar lol.

5. I loved the cameos of hawk and panther and the comm officer radio ted rollins

6. loved going to a nav pt after that and hearing "chalk up another for the maniac" awesome sauce

7. loved the design of the kalrathi jets on freja sp

8. feel like I deserved a medal or ribbon on the mission where the bradshaw is destroyed bc I did not lose one cap ship including the bradshaw they decided to self destruct it when it still had 10 percent hull left. I deserve something for that long ass mission lol