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Topic-icon Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]

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5 years 7 months ago #5484 by Hadanelith
Hadanelith created the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
Alright, I was playing through reasonably well on the default difficulty (which I notice is set to easy, oddly enough, but whatever). Then I hit the mission to rescue the Kinney (don't ask me what system, I can't remember, but it's the first mission in that system, about 5 systems in. I think it's the one after Loki). Problem the first: the loooooooong scene at the beginning of the mission. You seriously want me to use ALL of my Afterburner fuel? Just to get there? How about no. After my first try, gave that up in a heartbeat. So now I have to cross 400k distance on normal thrusters. I usually get impatient around 200k and burn in from there. Scene goes off without hitch (kinda cute humor there, but a little inappropriate, given the circumstances). Clean up the Cats, run through the second wave, off to Nav 2. Kill a few more furballs. Then the hell begins.

Nav 3: two corvettes, standing off at about 50-60k from the frigate. Bunch of fighters, looks like mixed Dralthi/Darket/possibly some Vaktoth. No worries...until the stupid corvettes start dropping Skipper torps. Was not prepared for this. There's no margin for error, miss one and the frigate dies. You can't charge off after the corvettes to blow away the launchers; the first launched skipper will kill the frigate in the mean time. You can't order your wingmates to kill the launchers/corvettes, because you have no authority in this mission. Best plan I've got: hang back by the frigate, match speed. Glide along the frigate's path, then turn and face the Skipper's approach vector. Blow them out of space. Sounds great, right? Well, not really.

The Skippers decloak twice during their run, once at halfway, once close to the frigate. The only good chance to kill them is the last decloak, on final approach. That's not easy, but it's doable. Or it would be, if the darned things had to decloak to attack, but they don't! First one drops cloak at about 10k, burns in visible. Hard to catch, but doable. Second one, though, decloaks at more like 15k. I'm hanging at about 2k from the frigate - second one's outside my gun range, but I burn at it, and it looks like I'll hit it...until it cloaks again, maybe 5k from the frigate, and stays that way all the way in. There's no way to hit it once that happens. That's it.

OK, try number three: move to about 6k from the frigate, use that as my set point, shoot them as they come. Except moving that far summons a Dralthi to harass me long enough for the Skipper to fly right over my head, I miss it, game over AGAIN!

At this point I am sick and tired of this mission. If you fail, the debrief says you're dead, so I want to succeed, but I can't figure out how and I am well past tired of the HALF HOUR lead in to the 20 second challenge. Did I mention I dropped to the lowest difficulty for the last run, and still no dice? I'm done with this mission. How do I (any of the following): make the frigate invincible; kill the Skippers; skip the mission entirely; edit my save to allow me access to the next level; get my wingmen to help in a constructive fashion?

Please don't make me play this bloody mission over and over again. Heck, I'd be perfectly fine with a restart autosave at the autopilot to Nav 3, but I can't stand the though of playing through again and again, with 30 minutes of boredom punctuated with 2 minutes of total frustration only to repeat it from the beginning once more. Halp?

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5 years 7 months ago #5485 by Light
Light replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
Light your afterburner. Once you are at full speed hit ALT-G to engage glide mode and let go the AB key. Your speed will stay at full afterburner speed without using and AB fuel. Hit ALT-G again to disengage glide when you arrive at the TCS Kenny.

Also if you can damage the Skipper while uncloaked then it will leave a visible vapor trail after it recloaks that you can aim at manually.

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5 years 7 months ago #5488 by Hadanelith
Hadanelith replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
That's a useful tip - and it explains how the AI can go full burn all the way there and have fuel left over. Thanks. That'll cut the tedium some, but I still have to deal with the Skippers somehow.

edit: wait, you can hurt the Skips without killing them? News to me - but gives me a bit more of a fighting chance.

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5 years 7 months ago #5492 by Light
Light replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]

Hadanelith wrote: That's a useful tip - and it explains how the AI can go full burn all the way there and have fuel left over. Thanks. That'll cut the tedium some, but I still have to deal with the Skippers somehow.

edit: wait, you can hurt the Skips without killing them? News to me - but gives me a bit more of a fighting chance.


A Skipper's hull is about as strong as a Strakha's hull but it has no shields. One missile hit should do one in.

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5 years 7 months ago #5497 by Hadanelith
Hadanelith replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
No wonder one gun salvo wasn't taking them out like other cap missiles. So a quick ImRec is the easiest method?

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5 years 7 months ago #5498 by KeldorKatarn
KeldorKatarn replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
First off, if you fail any mission 5 times the game will let you skip it. We're not THAT brutal ;)

As for this mission, the trick is really to use Glide in the first approach to safe afterburner fuel.

but to make things even more easy on you: The corvette can only fire the skippers if its launcher is intakt. destroy the launcher and no more skippers.

So my recommendation would be: Right when you get to the nav point, burn towards the corvett and destroy its missile launcher. When the skipper decloaks immediately close in and fire a missile at it. don't even bother with guns. You must be close enough though, otherwise the skipper might cloak before the missile reaches it.

Keep at least 3 IR missiles for this final nav point just for dealing witht he skippers. that's the easiest way to get rid of them. if you manage to kill the Corvette's launcher in between that's even better. No launcher, no skippers. (and of course no corvette no launcher ;) )

Oh and... it's Nifelheim system and it is the SECOND mission in that system ;) )

Nifelheim 2...hehe... the first player killer mission ;) This mission proves that for Saga you need a little more than just shooting skills, you need a little bit of planning ahead and tactics too.

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5 years 7 months ago #5500 by Light
Light replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
What KeldorKatarn said. :arrow: He beat me to the post. I was typing up the same recommendation. ;)

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5 years 7 months ago #5502 by Hadanelith
Hadanelith replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
Thanks for the tips. Mayhap fourth time's the charm. While I've got a dev on the line, let me ask you about another mission, a while before Nifleheim - the one about transferring fighters between another carrier and the Hermes. I failed that one (only played it once, but it was a pain). It seemed to me that my wingmen (the Arrows, not the Thunderbolts) just flew in formation with the damaged fighters, rather than engage the enemy. Further, the Thuds tended to group up on one target, which certainly killed that one dead, but did little to break up the attack.

With that in mind, how does one get through this level without losing too many fighters? What happens if you succeed?

Further questions: when do I get promoted? I know I need a promotion to pick my own missile loadout, and I really, really want to take those heatseekers off my rails (in favor of more ImRecs, or Dumbfires if I need anti-ship). I'd also like to know when I get transferred off of the Arrows - they're alright, but my bird of choice is the Thunderbolt. I got to play one sortie with it so far, and it is as sweet as I remember.

Thanks for answering my questions.

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5 years 7 months ago #5505 by KeldorKatarn
KeldorKatarn replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]

Hadanelith wrote: Thanks for the tips. Mayhap fourth time's the charm. While I've got a dev on the line, let me ask you about another mission, a while before Nifleheim - the one about transferring fighters between another carrier and the Hermes. I failed that one (only played it once, but it was a pain). It seemed to me that my wingmen (the Arrows, not the Thunderbolts) just flew in formation with the damaged fighters, rather than engage the enemy. Further, the Thuds tended to group up on one target, which certainly killed that one dead, but did little to break up the attack.


Hehe we can't let the wingmen do everything for you now can we ;)

With that in mind, how does one get through this level without losing too many fighters? What happens if you succeed?


Well, this mission certainly calls for quick reactions. You need to intercept all fighters and you need to intercept them fast.

My tips: select the escorted ships ('E' for selecting a ship in your escort list), then press 'G'. That selects the closest ship attacking your current target. That makes sure you only attack ships that are really going after your escorted ships. The first few waves of Dralthi will attack them, the later waves will however only distract you while the real threat, faster Darkets, will go after the ships. That diversion is usually what kills the mission for you. Save some missiles for those Darkets. They are the real threat. And don't let the Dralthi in the later waves distract you. Check with E and G keys who is attacking who.

As for the failure, don't worry about it. In this case we knew this mission was hard to beat and therefore the pissed of CO in the debriefing is pretty much the only thing you have to worry about. This time... ;)

Further questions: when do I get promoted? I know I need a promotion to pick my own missile loadout, and I really, really want to take those heatseekers off my rails (in favor of more ImRecs, or Dumbfires if I need anti-ship). I'd also like to know when I get transferred off of the Arrows - they're alright, but my bird of choice is the Thunderbolt. I got to play one sortie with it so far, and it is as sweet as I remember.

Thanks for answering my questions.


Well I won't spoil anything for you... but I will say this. it's not far in the future and your transfer to Thunderbolts... is even less far in the future ;)

Edit: In general I can say this much: No mission that lets you progress in the campaign even though you lost it, will make you pay too hard for that loss. You're not going to end up in some sort of losing branch or something. You may miss a medal (or achievement how it's called nowadays) or a followup mission might get tougher. But you're not going to lose the game because of it. If a mission failure is critical, the game will let you know by blocking campaign progress. Like in Nifelheim 2. but even those missions you can skip after 5 failures. (That's pretty much were the WC3 losing branch would start where everybody ends up in proxima getting slaughtered ;) )

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5 years 7 months ago #5506 by Ace
Ace replied the topic: Nifelheim 2: ... help me! [Spoilers]
Yes, IR missles are the way to go. Rather than go after the launcher, I just positioned myself directly behind the engines of the Battleaxe about 8000km out facing directly at the engines so I'm following them, automatch speed to the Battleaxe, then engage glide mode and then spin around to face the corvette. Make sure you are using the IR missiles. You'll need at least 3, but 4 is good in case you miss and need to fire another. Then just keep pressing "R" to target the closest attacking thing. Eventually you'll see a skipper show up. The first time the missile decloaks it'll be out or range, that's fine keep waiting, Eventually, they'll decloak a second time and should be in range to acquire a missile lock and then fire away. There isn't much time to get the lock and fire so you've got to be quick about it. When the missile is destroyed, keep pushing "R" again. I did this on super easy mode. It might not worker on harder difficulty.

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